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Post by Siana Blackwood on Jan 4, 2015 5:39:33 GMT
AKA the creative cycle of some writers, me included. As I probably didn't say but meant to in a PPT post earlier today, I'm pretty sure this cycle is ultimately an unsuccessful strategy. I don't know how to fix it, though. Whenever I decide I'm definitely not going to run on muse-dust, coffee and the smell of fear I just end up writing nothing at all, planning things I'll never write and taking a shortcut straight to the 'despair' stage because I can't plan my way out of the plot holes.
So... experience with the "*panic*, *flail*, *give up*, *despair*" cycle? Are you doing a lot better than me at this writing game and you've broken out of that cycle and come up with a more practical option?
Tips, tricks, strategies, random anecdotes...
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Post by Jᴀy V. Aꜱᴛᴇʀ 💀🐍 on Jan 4, 2015 6:33:00 GMT
*waves writing quill from the bottommost circle of the Doom Room [sorry]* *hyperventilates, throws down quill* *insert image of a contorted figure emitting tortured black metal scream* *then the figure flops over, kicks around, descends into doom metal groans* *then lies face down crying noisily into a pool bubbling forth from the blackest underwater caverns of the Chasm, which is black as demon's blood except it's coffee* *figure teleports to Steve and scratches out its misery to be read by all and sundry through the permanent portals of the internet*
That...is my strategy.
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Post by Siana Blackwood on Jan 4, 2015 6:39:42 GMT
How wrong is it that I instantly thought "Dark Fortress music video!"?
Also, is it time I renamed the book Doom to something I'm less likely to encounter in a forum conversation?
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Post by Jᴀy V. Aꜱᴛᴇʀ 💀🐍 on Jan 4, 2015 6:50:47 GMT
Not far off at all. I'm listening to Dark Fortress. XD
Haha, on the scale of Placeholder to This Is The One Title That Was Destined For This Story By The Gods of Writerdom, where does Doom fall?
Writing is supposed to be about screaming into the face of our inevitable obsolescence. What are we supposed to do when our inevitable obsolescence starts jeering back at us?
I suppose I should write the words anyway, even if i'm feeling like I'm sucking out my own blood for the ink (FIGURATIVELY), because I'm writing like a stone monolith through the sludge doom and fear, because those voices are literally yelling at me with every word.
I suppose in theory it makes things very simple. The fact that we face a dilemma, that we're either failing or flailing means that there are factors we just can't control. Guess it means we're down to the bare bones: write or write not. We can't control what comes out. If we're posting or sharing it, we can't even take refuge in the hope of cleaning up everything that is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRO-- *slaps voice of doubt*. I think...maybe at this point we just need to accept that it is what it is, that what comes out is what is there, and just keep going. No thinking about what we could and should do instead. Just write. Maybe we also need to accept that other writers are going through the same thing, and agree that we all went into this knowing these are first drafts, and so no one's going to judge us if we complain about what's wrong or different.
Except I really want to use all this writer candy I came up with, and I'll be kitten-crushingly :-( -crying-Tom-Hiddleston disappointed if I don't get to, because those were the fun bits!! NPNP said of such events to just do the fun bits, except it's not going to make sense if I only do those so how do I lead up to them without it going in a completely different direction?
*goes off into the Doom Room again*
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Post by Siana Blackwood on Jan 4, 2015 13:09:38 GMT
How do I explain something about how panic-flail writing is mentally exhausting? Probably try some time that isn't after midnight. I may be back with coherence later. Probably not, but definitely text of some kind.
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Post by Jᴀy V. Aꜱᴛᴇʀ 💀🐍 on Jan 4, 2015 22:44:29 GMT
/Sigh/ I know what you mean. (Yes, the visible text is actually the TLDR version >_>) So the following is only in terms of the first draft. Once the draft is produced, doesn't matter how, everyone needs to redraft, but the trouble here seems to be in actually producing a workable draft. Maybe. (At least, seems to be in my case, resulting in the panic flail give up despair cycle.)
*Attempts to write a neat formula to define amount of effort required to produce a neat draft that is readable but just needs known changes, the 'ideal' kind which goes from one scene to the next and mostly tells the intended story, which most people seem to be able to produce by default...and then tries to modify the forumula in order to define the effort to produce a draft when the story constantly wanders off the beaten path, this spirals off into other spirals that constantly intersect.*
So people say 'just put one word in front of another, one line in front of another, one scene in front of another, until you're done'...how do they do that and actually manage to get something that resembles a story that they want, which they're happy with posting as a first draft just with minor cleanup? No clue.
Some plan first. Some pants. Either way, the thinking seems to be that the only effort expended for a workable first draft needs to be that of just writing it down once...(I'm not referring to imaginary people either. I know some people who really do just write it down once, and for them writing = moving forward. These people may not know immediately how much they need to get done, but they can estimate. An unfinished draft is a story that has no middle/end.)
--->Standard 'normal' linear draft effort where thinking is 'writing = moving forward': I'm gonna say that's a straight line. But for me, it's not like that. I am not happy with ANY pantsed novel. I want MY novel...but that involves spiraling off into the depths of madness multiple times because I don't know what that story IS. I can plan writer candy and general things I'd like to hit, but not much else, because I don't know how to get there until I get there...but there's a way I want to get there and ways I don't. I feel like I know what just feels right, but that's it. For that reason, pantsing quite often results in dead ends and disappointment. It doesn't mean my story is bad. It just means I got it wrong...but there's no way to optimize how to find what's right...so writing for me doesn't always mean that I produce something usable. I could be moving forwards, but I could also be moving sideways, slantways, roundways, wrongways, HOW THE HELL DID I EVEN GET HERE THIS IS ON MY LIST OF THINGS NOT TO DO I AM TELLING THE WRONG STORY ways (all personal mind-blocking issues aside)... Ah. --->First draft effort to write a story that constantly spirals into madness where "writing=you may not necessarily move forward because you could go ANYWHERE and chances are 90% of this is useless anyway but you can't not write it because you won't know otherwise" : TIMEY WIMEY. That would explain it. So some people write 7k in a week, and they have a nice little update. For me though, writing even a first draft 7k update means writing 70k of blather until I figure out what I want...so producing the same text in the same needs-work-but-it's-a-workable-first-draft for me SEEMS to be an entire order of magnitude of effort higher. I can't just write and make quick edits, because if I do I inevitably get depressed and the story dies because I know I'm writing the wrong story. So during a standard writing challenge, in order to produce a workable draft of the same quality as a linear "writing=moving forward", mental exhaustion happens when I am trying to fit a writing path I'll call THE 3D TIMEY WIMEY PENTAGRAM OF MADNESS into the time allotted to a 'just go from one scene to the next' straight line. This kicks off panic flail give up despair, because there's just no way that's going to happen. The way a timey wimey novel works, one could write a million words and still not be done, but there's no way to know, so it's effectively an impossible task.
Am I WAY off on this? Is it just me, or is it like this for some but not others, or does everyone have this to some degree, but some just find it easier to deal with the unknowns, or at least have more concrete stuff to grab on to?
Hmmm. Maybe the difference is that for some, there are just too many unknown variables in the early stages, or there are an equal number of unknowns, but some people have more trouble figuring out which way to go?
Which also brings forth the next question: Is there a way to optimize keeping to the path of the novel we want? Necessarily, such novels might take longer to write, especially if one must WRITE first to know, which is time consuming and bloated. Planning works for some, but for others it only clears away the broadest strokes. For the more timey wimey issues, DPBs has gone a little way towards getting timey wimeys started off in the right direction earlier in the cycle, by simulating a NaNo flail machine and eliminating some wrong paths earlier.
I think...I think maybe there are voices in the head and then there are voices in the heart. Timey wimeys get stronger when the voices in the head tell them that they suck, that they SHOULD do this and SHOULD do that, leading the story off the path. The voices are the ones that tell you to do the things you hate, because that is how it SHOULD work. It's not because it's YOU HAVE TO STICK TO THE PLAN YOU MADE WRITER LIKE A GLUED-ON THUMB TACK...you can stick to the bones of a good plan. Listening to the voice means clinging to fear. I think...I think I'm wandering in a dark tunnel with a light, there are actually two sets of voices at play: the voices that taunt out loud with fear and the silent voices that guide with the gut. The voice of fear tells us we suck and we'll be judged and our stories will never amount to anything. Point 1. Don't listen to the voices of fear. Don't fear failure or success or panic. But it's not just a matter of learning not to listen to the voice in the head, because that tends to lead to meaningless, soulless wandering in circles. Writing shouldn't be dead. I think that something I overlooked is that the voice in the head has a counterpart to it...a voice that actually helps us. Maybe it's naturally stronger in some people than others... I think more than that though, it's the other voice that helps find the One Path, the instinct that tells us 'colder...warmer...YES' while we navigate the maze. It's like that light that Dumbledore gave Ron in Harry Potter, which helped him find Ron and Hermione again by glowing brighter every time he got closer. It would have been impossible for him to find them otherwise. I need to recognize that voice more. That way killing the lights and wandering off into the darkness won't lead to madness quite so often. So maybe...one must let go of all worries and trust in the light in the darkness of the tunnel not only to light the next step forward, but also to tell us whether we're getting colder or warmer. There's no logic in that, just instinct...but an instinct like a muscle whose existence is hard to predict. It's like...even while writing, something may start off right, but if it feels wrong, don't force it THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID. It probably is. I did it for a little while this way last night, and while it took longer and I had less words, I was kinda satisfied with it THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID. Point 2. Listen to the 'colder or warmer' voice in the heart/gut, but not with logic. Don't think. Just trust it. Okay, this all probably sounds really, really weird and cracked now. *Wanders off in the direction of the fridge*
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Post by Siana Blackwood on Jan 5, 2015 3:31:40 GMT
Hmm... critic vs. muse. It's not enough just to silence the critic - you also have to give the muse a megaphone. That's a great mental image to start the day . Critic in a small metal cage, muse sitting on top holding a megaphone and yelling things like "Hey, go and write something!" The thing is, all this flailing in the dark looking for a story sounds crazy. It's not organised. Compare this method of producing a story with the people who have outlines and plans and did all their worldbuilding in advance. Who seems more crazy? The person who dived into the penguin-filled darkness, hoping there's something to land on. It's uncontrolled. Uncontrollable. When there's a controllable, repeatable method of writing a novel sitting there waiting to be utilised, why the hell would anyone want to try anything different? ...and that's probably the beginning of the voice of 'why not just give up?'. I don't feel like my current strategy can work in the long run, so I'm entirely capable of talking myself into failure. Okay, here's a theory: You have to use what's in your head. If there's an idea or a chunk of an idea, write that down and put it in some kind of plan. If there's a character making impatient 'get to the keyboard so I can start talking' gestures, do that instead. If either idea or chunk of narration comes from some random place you've never seen before, write it anyway and trust that eventually you'll get a chunk to fit between points A and B. This may involve chunks Z, F, I and W, but that's okay. If it happens that this particular story is fine with coming in a readable linear progression, also okay. If it comes in a long series of one-sentence statements that have to be gradually fleshed out, still okay. All these things happen and any one (or a combination) could be the right approach for a particular story.
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Post by TheDweadPiwate on Jan 5, 2015 4:01:14 GMT
Panic, flail, give up, and despair totally describes my day today I don't really have any useful suggestions for digging out of it atm, but just wanted to send some good writerly vibes to all of you in the same boat!
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Post by Jᴀy V. Aꜱᴛᴇʀ 💀🐍 on Jan 5, 2015 4:45:52 GMT
Yes! This! :-D Okay, here's a theory: You have to use what's in your head. If there's an idea or a chunk of an idea, write that down and put it in some kind of plan. If there's a character making impatient 'get to the keyboard so I can start talking' gestures, do that instead. If either idea or chunk of narration comes from some random place you've never seen before, write it anyway and trust that eventually you'll get a chunk to fit between points A and B. This may involve chunks Z, F, I and W, but that's okay. If it happens that this particular story is fine with coming in a readable linear progression, also okay. If it comes in a long series of one-sentence statements that have to be gradually fleshed out, still okay. All these things happen and any one (or a combination) could be the right approach for a particular story. Yeah! Skimming dangerously close to pushing the metaphor, it's like once you know you need to go the way of madness, and you accept that your muse GPS won't let you get lost, I feel like then it's even okay to go back and plan a little or use whatever methodology as preparation as long as you know that it'll work differently for a timey wimey. It's like...you can outline, think about characters, scribble things, do DPBs, even skip all of that and just fill a big bag with writer candy, but if your muse tells you you're not letting your story breathe or that it's the wrong way, back the hell off or suffer the consequences! That said, I tried it again today. It worked. But I also found the dark side. I opened up SSSS story, looked at what I had, and listened to what Muse and Megaphone hereby referred to as M&M told me to do with it. It worked beautifully. It's still in fragments, and that's okay, but at least they make sense. Then I turned on the light too brightly, realized that now that I've done one bit right I need to keep going until the end, which is so far away...shrieked, dropped the light, and promptly ran out of there screaming. So now I think I finally understand what it means to fear success. Once you do one bit, there's a whole heap of other bits waiting to eat you alive. *bites nail, hyperventilates* So...M&M's tip to Agent: "THERE'S A REASON WE ONLY HAVE ONE TINY LIGHT THAT ONLY SHOWS ONE TINY STEP AHEAD. YOU'LL GO MAD IF YOU TRY TO LOOK AT MORE THAN THAT, MY DEAR DERANGED DUNDERHEAD." /twitch/ Now I'm fully aware that I'm absolutely terrified of getting past the beginning -- in an I-turn-into-a-permanent-frozen-in-time-human-bloodsicle-version-of-that-painting-The-Scream-because-I'm-facing-my-worst-nightmare way. Which bodes the question, does it count as story adultery if I'm strongly tempted to flee in terror from my SSSS story to start my SS-SFF-SS story, knowing full well that I'm running away and procrastinating, but also holding up the excuse that that's also one of my goals? Can we get imaginary Steve credit for the hours spent having writing epiphanies that produced results even if they give me nightmares? XD
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